19.Mar.2001
ego-self
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the ego-self
I love it when I randomly start up a chat program only to be greeted with a large philosophical/scientific debate about death and time. Observe:
Mike:
The conclusion I came to is that our ego-self is an emergent property of us having the conscious ability we have... it's sort of an unpleasan side effect if you will... it has no basis in -reality- as anyone other than yourself, as in your ego-self views the world. So, here's what I came up with...
Scientists pretty much agree these days that "time" has no direction. The notion of directional time is one created by humans because we grow old and die... our existence has a direction: entropy, and like humans always do, we tried to apply what we thought was right to the universe as a whole. And as usual we were dead wrong. Up until the 70's people thought time had a direction because science predicted a "heat-death" of the universe, where the universe would burn off all it's fuel and and eventually the last atom would cease movement and time, which was previously thought of to be, in scientific terms, the expenditure of heat through motion, would stop. Quantum physics ruined everything.
Turns out that what we thought was the 2nd law of thermodynamics (that being any energy expended can never be regained) is also incorrect, so a hundred or so years of heat-death pessimism goes down the drain with the realization that there is no reason that what we thought was protons turning into negative ions (heat expenditure), couldn't be negative ions becoming protons.
Like, seriously, the universe could be running "backwards".
Time, does not -technically- exist.
Me:
No.It never really has. Time was a man-made philosophy applied to perhaps sustain an order within the universe. Thus, one could look at that being made by man, it could be torn down and re-done by man, but since humans are comfortable with monotony and safety of time, it hasn't been challenged enough to be changed.
Mike
Now, here's the interesting part...In death, what happens aside from the obvious running out of the proverbial batteries?
Me
besides the body decomposing? or that the body reaches its end?
Mike
In death, "time" for the dying person stops.
bink.
Time stops.
Okay, so what I'm getting at here is:
If, in death, the essential falsity of directional time is made apparent, and the the death of the ego-self are concurrent, wouldn't that mean, that in the moment of death, your consciousness, minus the ego-self, would exist in THAT moment, forever?
Me:
This theory has a disturbing amount of potential.
Mike:
YOu have to have a consciousness that has evolved enough to be able to exist without it's ego-self.
Me:
that consciousness could be applied to as the 'soul' or 'spirit' or somesuch. and by being such, it wouldn't necessarily be a conscious.
but then we start arguing religious semantics.
Mike:
CHristians, muslims, stupid people who have never thought of anything outside of their immediate scope of vision, are, in effect, robbing themselves of a potential ever-lasting existence by perpetuating their ego-self through religion.
Well, I think you do have a soul, it's your base consciousness. Not your ego-self, but rather the brain that has evolved enough to allow us abstract thought.
Me:
Yes. I meant it is separate from the ego-self.
Mike:
I think that what death is, is the pulling back of the curtains on time and self image and the shedding of our proverbial earthbound coccoon, and in the moment of death, your consciousness exists forever, and since there is no ego-self to ruin the party, it is, for lack of a better term, bliss.
What really bugs me about this theory is that I used totally scientific methods to get to it, I made almost no assumptions... I'm running on tried and true knowledge... Heaven, in as much as existing in eternal bliss may in fact exist. You just gotta be ready for it.
Me:
and by stating you have to be ready for it, those not ready for it never experience it? or reach it? When the falsity of 'time' in them stops?
Mike:
Yes.
Me:
floating. for an eternity. in a bliss that is otherwise defined as without constraint of the physical world, and without the mental constraint of the ego-self.
Mike:
So what do you think about my revelation?
Me:
I was going to ask what drug pushed you to this revelation, but in a nice way
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time & machine